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Industry PostDoc Jobs - Websites

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Industry PostDoc Jobs - Websites

Postby Eduardo » Thu Mar 05, 2015 7:07 am

Dear,

What is the best website to search for PostDoc jobs in industry?

Thank you.

Eduardo
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Re: Industry PostDoc Jobs - Websites

Postby PG » Thu Mar 05, 2015 12:34 pm

The best way of looking for a postdoc position in industry is to identify commpanies that you are interested in, trying to find out if they have a postdoc program (usually possible on their webpage) and then trying to contact them directly either through a networking effort or worst case by talkng with their HR department (followed by a networking effort).

Advertised postdoc positions in industry have a lot of applicants.
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Re: Industry PostDoc Jobs - Websites

Postby Yandorio » Fri Mar 13, 2015 11:58 am

Can someone define/explain "a networking effort?"
I went ahead and filled out Linkedin but the job,
made a couple connections, etc but applications still
bring me back to the same old "Apply now" button that people told me was passe nowadays.
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Re: Industry PostDoc Jobs - Websites

Postby PG » Fri Mar 13, 2015 2:20 pm

I will make a try. Networking and applying for positions or asking for a position are completely different things. The idea with networking is that you should get to know people and that they should get to know you. When these people are exposed to an open position in their company/ department or a position that someone else they know have available you want them to think about you.

The first thing you need to do is to identify a suitable individual to talk with. Ideally you want to be in contact with hiring managers (ie not HR but the person that you would actually be working for if they would offer you a position). However especially if you are early in your career getting in contact with hiring managers can sometimes be difficult and it is often suggested that you should aoim at contacting people who are maybe two steps ahead of you in their careers. Linkedin, pubmed, patent databases, company websites etc can be good ways of identifyinng the people you want to talk with.

Once you know who you want to talk with you need to make contact. Ideally you want to meet or at least talk by phone. If you use e-mail or contact them through linkedin your goal should be to either meet in person or talk by phone.

Once you have made contact you want to achieve at least one of the following 1) get additional networking contacts and ideally an introduction to that person 2) get information about the company/department/type of position that you are interested in/ requirements to get were you want to go in yoru career etc 3) get them to know you and your career goals.

Immportantly if you ask for a position during a networking meeting that will often end the discussion and make your contact hesitant to provide further contacts.

There is a lot more information about networking of this website including a lot of tips and ideas, what to do and what not to do.

If I look at myself and my career so far I have gotten all my positions by someone who contacted my asking if I was potentially interested in a certain position.
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Re: Industry PostDoc Jobs - Websites

Postby Dick Woodward » Fri Mar 13, 2015 5:45 pm

Yandorio:

PG has given you very good advice. From this post, and some of your previous posts in another thread, it appears that you do not really understand networking. Networking is not "filling out LinkedIn and making a couple of connections." It really isn't. Honest. So I'm going to be blunt here - please don't be offended.

Networking is putting yourself in a position wherein words from your mouth reach the ears of someone who can help you, and words - hopefully of advice - from their mouth reach your ears. This does not happen via computer. This happens, ideally, in a face-to-face meeting, but a telephone conversation will do almost as well. Skype is also good. As PG said,
"Networking and applying for positions or asking for a position are completely different things. The idea with networking is that you should get to know people and that they should get to know you. When these people are exposed to an open position in their company/ department or a position that someone else they know have available you want them to think about you.


I belong to a senior executives' networking group in my area. Some of these people are "in transition" (aka looking for jobs). Others are not. The most common phrase I hear at these meetings is "Is there anything that I can do to help you?" Networking is an exchange of ideas and a process of getting to know the other person. In cases like yours, as PG said
The idea with networking is that you should get to know people and that they should get to know you. When these people are exposed to an open position in their company/ department or a position that someone else they know have available you want them to think about you.
.

LinkedIn is good for identifying people that you want to talk to. E-mail is good for setting up a time to talk. Networking is communication.

As PG indicated, you should go back to the Forum and read all of the threads on networking. Then read all of the "Tooling Up" articles on networking. Then network.

Best of luck,

Dick
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Re: Industry PostDoc Jobs - Websites

Postby Yandorio » Sat Mar 14, 2015 11:33 am

I'm not offended. I've been doing research for the last 15 years,
not networking or studying networking so I am not embarrassed about this.
A skeptic might say what you describe is just high-tech schmoozing, but I'll let people make up their own minds. I would suggest that the job applications offered online on Simplyhired, Indeed.com, etc, are a big waste of time if networking is the order of the day. Why do they still
pretend to be utilizing this route ("Apply here" online) if networking is so much more efficient toward getting a job? On the face of it, the traditional applications route seems just a big charade if what you describe is now de rigueur. Maybe it's time they stop even advertising science jobs online and let everyone "network."
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Re: Industry PostDoc Jobs - Websites

Postby Dick Woodward » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:25 pm

The jobs are posted online because it is an EEOC requirement that they do so. In the old days, they used newspapers - now they use the internet. That does not mean that anyone pays much attention to all of those submissions, or even reads the resumes carefully. The HR person screening those submissions is looking for a reason to discard as many resumes as possible as quickly as possible. Contrast that with the HR person who is told "there is a person named Jane Smith applying for the position - I've met her and I think that she is a candidate worth considering" or even gets Jane's resume handed to him/her - Jane (or Yandorio) has already moved out of the crowd.

I suspect that you have always believed that your science would speak for itself - that's a common belief among academics. Unfortunately, it is not true. Academic collaborations get formed through networking, and when search committees are reviewing the hundreds (thousands) of resumes for an assistant professorship, they will likely pay more attention to a CV endorsed by one of the committee members than to one of the myriad of on-line applications.

Basically, you have two choices - you can study the discussions on networking in this forum and in the Tooling Up articles, put the suggestions to use and have a decent chance at getting a position, or you can stay above the fray of "high-tech schmoozing" and hope that someone somewhere finds your resume and thinks that you are just what they need.

Please excuse me if I sound a little bit harsh, but I think that you really need to do some serious assessment of your job-hunting strategy. Whichever path you choose, I wish you all the best.

Dick
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Re: Industry PostDoc Jobs - Websites

Postby Rich Lemert » Sat Mar 14, 2015 12:40 pm

Submitting your application through the HR "black hole" is the job-hunting equivalent of direct-mail marketing. People do get jobs that way, but the effort required to do so is way out of proportion to the results. Don't discount the process completely, but also don't make it more than 5-10% of your job hunting effort - and reserve it for the companies you wouldn't mind working for but are not targeting for a job.

As for networking, you're already doing it even if you don't realize it. Have you ever asked around to see if someone could suggest a good repair shop when your car went on the fritz? Or maybe you've told your friends about a great new eatery in town that they should try? The people you talked to are part of your social network, and your conversations were networking. Professional networking is the same thing - people with common interests getting together to share information and advice. You're at the point where you're primarily on the receiving end of that equation, but your goal is to become an 'equal' partner in the process.
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Re: Industry PostDoc Jobs - Websites

Postby A.I.C. » Sat Mar 14, 2015 1:45 pm

I am currently a postdoc in a pharmaceutical company in the Boston area. I have seen the application interview process from the applicant perspective and from the hiring manager's desk buddy perspective in an overly intimate open plan office.

If you're in an area like Boston, you're in a perfect place for networking. There's tons of networking events going on, online meet up groups, monthly lunches and dinners. You'll bump into scientists on the street, at the gym, in Spanish class, on the Red line, and even on dating websites. From my experience, in general, scientists in industry are very friendly and they really like to go out of their way to help. So one shouldn't be shy to introduce themselves.

However, if you're in a university in the middle of nowhere, as it was in my case, then you are probably finding advice about networking extremely frustrating. It felt to me like the only time I had a chance at knowing people from industry were the rare times when my advisor agreed to send me to a conference and when one of the people in my school got an industry job. I was somewhere in the deep south where there are almost no companies and the closest other school was 4h away. I found the postdoc position through a posting on one of the popular job websites, maybe indeed or monster. I think that monitoring one or two of these websites should be enough for positions that are actually posted. It is possible that our postdoc program is casting a wide net to try to tap into a diverse pool of postdocs. Other companies may do this differently, and you may want to track individual company websites as well.

In our postdoc program, all applicants must go through the online process before CVs are sent to the hiring manager. A few of us submitted CVs of people that we know, but these people still had to apply online and they were combined with the rest of the pile and reviewed by all members of the group. It did help when the hiring manager knew the applicant or their phd advisor or someone from their school. At the end of the day, each member of the group picked their favorite CVs. The CVs were diverse in terms of school locations, rankings, gender, and the kinds of non-science related variables you may worry about. The biggest determinant was how much the CV fit the position, the breadth of techniques, and the challenging nature of the problems solved.

So my main point is that networking will go a long way in helping your career, not just for the postdoc position, but for later positions where it will become more and more essential. And if you start learning how to do it early, you will make your life easier later on. But, if you find yourself in a remote area with low chances of networking, just make sure you do everything else right: build up your CV in terms of skills to try to match the job postings and follow all the advice you can get on this website and others on how to increase your chances at getting an industrial postdoc. Also consider getting an academic postdoc in a hub area like Boston or the Bay Area then applying about a year later for an industry postdoc. It's generally okay to be within your first or second postdoc when you apply for an industry one.

Good luck!
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Re: Industry PostDoc Jobs - Websites

Postby Dave Jensen » Sat Mar 14, 2015 2:07 pm

Yandorio,

The most common misperception about networking is that it is "schmoozing" as you describe. That's a cynical comment, an indication that the "people skills" side of that person's background needs some work.

Just like you may be, I'm an introvert. I've had to force myself for decades to overcome that basic desire to be a hermit. If you are going to live and work in the modern world, you have to be connected to others. And in the job search market, in particular, you have to put yourself out there or else you'll be bypassed by everyone who does.

This is not a "it's who you know" situation. This is a must-do, an absolutely essential part of your scientist toolbox that you need to have working for you at all times. Develop it now, while you are young, or you'll end up bitter and resenting others in 20 years.

Next Thursday night, a new "Tooling Up" article will be released called "A Networking Encounter," written with you in mind.

Dave
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