Dealing with Jealousy When Networking and Interviewing

[Nate W.]

Dear Forum,

Several times, I have applied for positions for which I was well qualified and networked into the group; speaking with several colleagues and even managers informally. After several positive conversations with the head of the group who makes the hiring decisions, my resume is sometimes delegated to a junior manager. Then when I am introduced to this manager (or try to introduce myself), I am given a cold shoulder and I haven't even said hello yet. I find this behavior annoying; judging someone before you have met them. Often I find out later, that manager is jealous of my background and fears that I might out shine them or another colleague who they might trust or like. Whatever happened to hire the best talent who can help the team (assuming they are reasonably nice and reasonable)? I am sure everyone has run into this behavior on occasion while networking. The question is how do you respond to it?

Here is one of those such situations that I am dealing with right now. I am applying for a position in a technology transfer office. The VP of intellectual property likes my patent experience and wants to consider me for a licensing position (or senior technology and patent analyst). The VP and I get along and have had positive talks. Plus, he referred my resume to the director for some positions. He told me that I can apply for the junior positions listed but I might be overqualified for them. However, he delegates these junior positions to his director who is a few years younger than I am and she has a patent analyst who she really likes as a friend. My scientific background (depth and diversity of expertise in life sciences) is far superior to this patent analyst and I have passed the patent bar. So when I was introduced to this director at a conference and inquired about the open positions, I got the buzz-off look and a lawyered-up response. The only thing that I can assume is that she is jealousy and doesn't want to hire those who compare favorable with her credentials or those of her friend. I know that I can help the group and I am well qualified.

Bottom line here is that the VP wants to hire me directly (where he is my supervisor) but the director doesn't want to out of jealousy. I don't know this person but have thoughts that she must be a controlling individual. The VP, her senior supervisor, seems quite reasonable and he is waiting on more funding for another licensing position that he is considering for me.

I find this behavior so unprofessional and silly. Think I am going to return a favor?

How would you handle this situation?

I am thinking kill her with kindness and then deal directly with her supervisor for a senior level licensing position when funding is available. However, she is probably going to be lobbying for her friends.

[D.X.]

Hi Nate,

From my Point of view, making a leap to accusing a hiring Manager or Network contact of jealousy based on a self-evaluated decision on your superior or equal competitiveness, knowledge base and Expertise is risky and not the best course of Action.

Making any acusaton of jealousy and proving it is a very hard one anyways and evidence to prove or deny such is very very verys subjective. Just don't go there.

I would challenge that you put yourself in the hiring manager's shoes.

As much as you may get along with the VP and s/he wants to hire you, the decision is with the director - the VP has delegated that authroity to the Director to take the hiring decision, s/he has not ordered or demanded that Director to hire you. In corporate Terms, if that VP is making a demand for his/her subordinate to hire a FTE report, that's disempowering, not-appropriate and bad behavior.

So the hiring decision as you wrote may be with that director, not the VP, the VP can only make a recommendation. Also if not the case, the decision, if not strong influence so it may as well be a decision, on team-fit is also with that director should you be considered a member of the Team, that that decison is beyond any perceptions you may have of your superior Talent and abilities, it will be personality driven with consdiration secondly of your competencies.

That being said, going back to putting youself in the shoes of that Director, imagine you get a CV from your Boss with an endorsement from them. You don't know who the Person is and when you meet them, how are you going to be? are you going to greeet that Person as though you were Long time friends? Probably not. Or are you going to be professional and feel the Person out first? In that case you'd be reserved (i hope) and try to understand more right? You would know nothing about the Person i front of you from a personality Point of view.

It is well possible that you may come across as cold or luke warm but probably its not really the case. Also add the confounder of Meeting at a conference, that director probably had other things on their mind that took higher priority that you. That's normal, it happens. Right? I'm a warm Person, but to be honest, i'm sure I come accross as what you describe when I'm Meeting others for the first time. Relationships take a while to build. So don't be quick to judge.

So then that goes to what Actions have YOU taking to get to know that director?

Have you invited them to a coffee or a lunch for a "getting to know you and informational interview"? Did you use the conference Meeting to schedule a follow on Meeting? You could have acknowledge the busy time at the conference and simply request to meet at a better time, less busy time.

Remember alot about working with others is about personality and fit and you are in a seat to help grease that. Sometimes you can't control it, remember we dont' get along with everyone, we all have met someone where after the first 10 seconds you're basically saying "yuck". I've had a few dates like that in my early days.

So becareful and put yourself in that person's shoes. Relationships take time and you have an open door. Taking a negative "world is against you view" is defeatist and will get you nowhere fast. The only behavior you can modify is yours.

And remember, more often - when you think there is jealousy, thats intagible and most likely unsustantiated. The more tangible reality is that Person doesn't want to work with you due to personality conflict, not fear of your Talent/Expertise - remember, the Boss is the Boss, rare you'll ever outshine a Boss if anything - and if you to think you're so much better that the Boss, then your Job is make the Boss shine via your Talent, make them out shine others - you'll be rewarded more on that front that the other way. Consider you should view your Boss as your Partner not as Person antagonistic to your career - any other view well...i suggest starting your own Business - you're just Setting yourself for bad outcomes at the very start.

And I also think it self-defeatist to have superior views of your Talent/Expertise to those whom you're looking to get a Job from. They are in their positions, rather your discussion Point should not be "why i'm so much better", your discussion Point to the hiring manager should be "how can i follow your lead, leverage your knowledge while delivering and developing on my experience and Expertise". That's the constructive view and the one that will be more successful opening doors.

And seriously, thinking about playing politics before you're even hired? I would take a very very very deep look at your EQ here. Not to be insulting in anyway but just some constructive criticism.,



Good luck!

DX

[Nate W.]

Dear DX,

Thanks for your response. I should add a few more facts to this story. This office is divided into several groups that are lead by several directors beneath the VP. However, the VP has his own group where he makes his own hiring decisions. I'll assume that he can override a hiring decision if he wants but I suspect that he wouldn't. The another fact is that I know another licensing associate in one of the departments beneath the director. This person, call him Guy, and I have a good relationship. I have never advocated that Guy lobby for me but he has graciously introduced me to the VP and another colleague. Guy will openly tell me that my background compares favorably and in some cases exceeds that of others in the office. He has encouraged me to apply for open positions. Also, he has informed me about the dynamics of the office. Based on Guy's comments, I know that there is a junior patent analyst who has less experience and expertise than I do who is good friends with the director. Analyzing and drafting patents is where I could help the office but I doubt the director will go for another patent person or hiring me in a junior patent role. This person is quite young and almost fresh out of graduate school.

When the VP spoke with me, I said that he wanted to consider me for a more senior licensing role in his group when he gets more funding. He did say that he would refer me for the junior positions but that I was overqualified; however if you would consider them. I think the reason he said this was because of the age difference between the Director (3-4 years) and I as well as the age difference of someone who the director might consider for a person in these junior positions.

I am trying to keep an open mind about this director but I know jealousy when I see it. Based on Guy's comments, your background compares quite well scientifically than anyone we have on staff as a licensing associate, including the director. Personally, I could use your help. In terms of the patent work, we have Sally; she is quite capable in a junior role but no patent experience which you have. I know you can help her. But when I ask about a patent positions, the director throws out Sally's name, like she is her protector. I have met this director twice and it is always a cold shoulder and defensive answers. I have no ill feelings towards her because I hardly know her. Based on her demeanor when we talk, she just doesn't want to give me a chance to make my case or even establish a professional acquaintance. This is not normal and Guy as well as the VP know that I can help the office and that I am well qualified. This is just jealousy plain and simple.

However, I like the VP and Guy. I know if I did get the job I would have to work around her prickly demeanor. I think that is what the VP is suggesting there would be a better fit if you were my supervisor than her; but he can't directly say that.

Talking about EQ. It just amazes me why people like the director behave this way. At a conference or open meeting to the public, you are representing the office and the University. Building relationships is a important part of technology transfer. I would think this means graciously meeting people and keeping an open mind when they are interesting in doing business with the University or being hired. Otherwise, people will go elsewhere. The director could have handled her interactions with me much better. If she was busy, tell me that and make a time to talk later. Ask to see your resume and then arrange a meeting. If you are not interested, tell me that too and I'll get the message. To give a cold shoulder and be defensive to someone qualified who might be able to help, especially when they are referred by your supervisor, it is rule and arrogant. You can't build a business relationship (or friendship) when you are so closed minded. It takes time and an open mind as well as a willingness to met others and listen. Behaving this way does a disservice to the reputation of your company and office, people who are astute about matters of EQ know this. I am member of local Rotary and meet many prominent business leaders and successful entrepreneurs that I have good relations with; they get what I am saying. My EQ is in good shape.

Jealousy is a natural sort of reaction among insecure colleagues who might be considered competitors. The secure colleagues will welcome the talent and up their performance. The senior ranks will gladly consider additional help and talent to get a problem solved (make money or save money) over silly issues of personnel dynamics. You are there to do a job with the people you have on staff. Push comes to shove doing the job well comes first then relationships. Jealousy is also how age discrimination occurs and why many people don't get jobs for which they are well qualified.


DX, the last paragraph is a topic for a later discussion and I am sure that we will have a difference of opinion and interesting discussion.

[Rich Lemert]

In addition to the excellent advice you've already received, I'd add two comments.

First, you seem to be putting a lot of energy into worrying about things you can't control. So you think the director is being rude/is jealous/whatever - what are you going to be able to do about it? There is only one person who's actions/attitudes you can control - focus on that person.

Second, if the situation is as you describe, do you really want that position? As I said, you're not going to miraculously going to change them. Chances are you get in that group and - assuming you've accurately described their attitudes - they're going to make your life miserable.

[PG]

When you are in a situation in which you dont understand why a person is doing something it can often be helpful to see things from the other persons perspective. I will give you a hypothertical scenario that doesnt have anything to do with jealousy.

If you are a hiring manager and have found a candidate that you like, someone who fulfills the requirements for the position and that you Believe would work well with the rest of your team and be motivated to stay in this position for several years. In this situation your manager shows up and strongly recommends another candidate. You dont know if this recommendation is because this new candidate is a friend of your manager, if the person comes through other contacts or if the new candidate is actually a good candidate with the correct competence for the position.

Most likely you will not be overly enthusiastic when meeting the candidate the first time and if you in this meeting find something that speaks against the candidate such as that he is overqualified for the position and therefore likely to move on to something else in the near future you might find yourself stuck in less than comfortable situation were your boss wants you to hire someone that you dont want to hire.

If your boss hadnt pushed for this new candidate it would have been an easy decision not to hire this new candidate since you already have someone with a better fit (and that people dont get an offer because they are overqualified happens all the time). In the current situation it gets more complicated.

Ássuming that the new candidate cant convince you to hire him the best outcome is that you both agree that he isnt a good hire for example due to being overqualified. If you both agree you will have an easy discussion with your boss and in this situation you might actually support this candidate when a position comes that he is a good fit for.

[D.X.]

Hi Nate,

Well, I think you're over-analyzing the Situation and I think you're Focusing on elements you just can't control. Personalities and established relationships are 2 of them you're focusing on. There are People when you meet them will have a personality that are different that yours. And sometimes, those personalities are insurmountable and not worth investing time - especially if you're in Job search mode.

Its different when you're employed and have to, by Basis of the Business Need, work with different personalities and make it work.

For Job seeking use in persuing a luke warm or cold shoulder once you've received a Signal or signals that a hiring Manager/ or key decision maker is not willing to engage.

I had a similar example a few years back - I was in contact (via heavy Networking efforts) with a head of a department/Business unit - had lunch with the Person. He was VP Level in a Big Pharma. I even met a Team-member of his, we had coffee (your so called "Guy"), we shared similar career paths and TA knowledge. That VP forwarded my CV to one of his direct reports, a Director who was hiring in her Team. So there was an open Position. Excitedly I thought, wow, I'm a total shoe in! I was invited for an "informal' interview!

Well I go met this Person and well, within 10 seconds of Meeting this person, my heart sank and my gut churned. Told myself to give this Person a Chance and I showed warmth to her, but that was not reciprocated the fact is that I was qualified for the Job technical-wise (Expertise wise). But then again..i was not qualified ...personality wise. That Person was cold, not so warm, and a bit guarded. I didn't Label that Person as Jealous, or mean, or terrible leader etc. I accepted that it just wasn't going to work! If I had a negative gut reaction during an interview, then OMG, seriously had I been offered a Job - would I really have wanted to work with such Person?! And as my Boss? Despite the fact I like the hiring Manager and one of her colleagues...no way!

I closed the discussion saying thank you and mention the opporunity was not right for me, she agreed (we both knew it was a personality issue, we both were politically saavy to know how to manage the situation) and that was that - I moved on and didn't give it another thought Job wise.

So take some Inspiration from me - you've put alot of effort in, but know when to move on.

Good luck!

Dx

[Nate W.]

In addition to the excellent advice you've already received, I'd add two comments.

First, you seem to be putting a lot of energy into worrying about things you can't control. So you think the director is being rude/is jealous/whatever - what are you going to be able to do about it? There is only one person who's actions/attitudes you can control - focus on that person.

Second, if the situation is as you describe, do you really want that position? As I said, you're not going to miraculously going to change them. Chances are you get in that group and - assuming you've accurately described their attitudes - they're going to make your life miserable.

It is only one of three gigs in town that do any patent prosecution and licensing in the life sciences. There is always a dysfunctional person in a work group; so I might have to adapt but I don't know this on the basis of what I know so far.

For the physical sciences and engineering, there are many firms and I have approached many of these firms for chemical work but they don't have enough business to warrant a full time hire.

Like I said before, I don't know this director and have met her only twice (<5 min). I have done enough networking to know that her reaction is not normal. Why she is acting this way? It could be anything and why should I care? I have a tendency while networking if someone is acting strangely or not openly honest about my candidacy (or positions in general) I feel like I am doing something wrong or something is wrong with my qualifications even though they haven't said anything. Maybe the problem is with them? Anyone on this forum have this reaction?

Some have said that I should that put myself in their shoes. Maybe my actions going forward should be just the opposite assuming they haven't said anything. This might appear insensitive; my job is not to understand the psychology of the prospective hiring manager or employees in that group. Maybe I should care less about the person(s) and focus on trying to get a job offer then we can evaluate fit later (which can be done nicely but assertively). This means identifying the hiring manager, getting heard by the hiring manager, making sure the manager listens to you and considers your qualifications objectively, and making sure the manager allows you to address any objections. Most managers will allow you to sell your qualifications if you appear reasonable and personable. However, a hiring manager who projects a nonverbal image of being unwilling to talk with a qualified candidate is sending a mixed signal.

If you are not interested, just tell the candidate? If there is somebody else in the group who would consider your qualifications, just tell the candidate? Maybe I should care less about these mixed signals and just push harder. I am not a psychologist

Based on my experiences, competent and self-secure managers welcome discussions from qualified candidates and reaction by openly discussing possibilities.

Clarification:

When I spoke with VP at the conference about open positions, the VP took me aside to a conference room and asked me about my situation and interest. I had sent my resume to him before the meeting and a request to talk with him. I explained to him that I was both consulting for a law firm and teaching at a college and that the consulting position was about to end. Thus, I would like to obtain a full-time position in your group given my patent experience and considerable life science expertise. However, I don't where I would fit in? He said there are some assistant roles (licensing and patent analysts) open that you can apply for but I think you are over-qualified. However, I would like to consider you for a senior licensing position when available. Send me your resume again and if you need work now, I'll forward your resume for the assistant role (for which he is not the hiring manager but the director) and I replied yes do that. The VP understands that I want to stay here and that there are limited options here for life science work. I think the VP was sending me a message to wait for the right position.

[Nate W.]

When you are in a situation in which you dont understand why a person is doing something it can often be helpful to see things from the other persons perspective. I will give you a hypothertical scenario that doesnt have anything to do with jealousy.

If you are a hiring manager and have found a candidate that you like, someone who fulfills the requirements for the position and that you Believe would work well with the rest of your team and be motivated to stay in this position for several years. In this situation your manager shows up and strongly recommends another candidate. You dont know if this recommendation is because this new candidate is a friend of your manager, if the person comes through other contacts or if the new candidate is actually a good candidate with the correct competence for the position.

Most likely you will not be overly enthusiastic when meeting the candidate the first time and if you in this meeting find something that speaks against the candidate such as that he is overqualified for the position and therefore likely to move on to something else in the near future you might find yourself stuck in less than comfortable situation were your boss wants you to hire someone that you dont want to hire.

If your boss hadnt pushed for this new candidate it would have been an easy decision not to hire this new candidate since you already have someone with a better fit (and that people dont get an offer because they are overqualified happens all the time). In the current situation it gets more complicated.

Ássuming that the new candidate cant convince you to hire him the best outcome is that you both agree that he isnt a good hire for example due to being overqualified. If you both agree you will have an easy discussion with your boss and in this situation you might actually support this candidate when a position comes that he is a good fit for.

PG, that is a possibility. They (TT Office) know there are limited options in this town for life science patent work. Why make a big deal out of this situation you described; just tell the candidate that? I would never close off an opportunity before it happens. If a qualified candidate is approaching me enthusiastically about a job, I would never turn them away before listening to them or fault them for trying. It is positive attribute if they are proactively talking with people; NOT a negative. Professional and polite managers understand this, like the VP or my previous supervisor.

I respect honesty from a prospective manager even when I might not like the answer. That's all I can ask for when job hunting.

[D.X.]

I think a key Topic missing on this Forum is "when to stop chasing a lead". Or when to take the brave and self-protecting decision to back off or park a lead or pursuit of an opportunity.

Either cut it completely or park it for a much later reactivation sometime in the distant future when you think the time is ripe.

This is one of those examples I think where the signals are fairly loud (as I read) that further Investment of time will not give a return and will potentially in the Close a door permanently. As with my case where I backed off, all the signals of a no-go were there for me.

Also PG raises some good Points. Nate seems to expect that hiring Managers have all this time in the world to Focus on candidates, to chase and butter them up, and do the best to attract them. Maybe that was the behavior many years ago. For the most part, this is not the case today. Hiring Managers do have thier day Job to do and limited time or interest to thinking how to appease a Job seeker.

Today, even if you make through the interview and get a Job offer, its not that a Company is waiting Hands and knees to get you. You just happen to be 1 out of 3 to 4 other candidates that they would make an offer to, you are just the very "soft" top-pick and they'll be quick to move on. This is the reality and it Comes back to getting that oh so important share of voice. And also knowning when Investment won't give additional returns - move on.

Sadly, I do think today its so much tougher _ with linkedin, drive by recruiters/recruting firms, fewer jobs, with global Level competition, with a changing industry and landscape it can be pretty intense.

So there no additional answer to respond other than continue tooling-up, continue Networking, be attentive to environment and also know when chasing an opportunity is not longer worthy of investment.

Best,

DX

[Nate W.]

DX,

Let's review some conventional advice on trying to find a job:

1) 70-80% of all jobs are found through networking
2) A majority of jobs are not advertised (i.e. hidden job market)

Here are other issues prospective manager complain about in candidates:

1) Candidates lack communication skills
2) Behavioral attributes are important in building a team

Given this set of facts, managers shouldn't complain about a prospective candidate enquiring about a job, especially a qualified one. A good manager can always reasonably handle an unqualified candidate who calls them too much. You asked:

I think a key Topic missing on this Forum is "when to stop chasing a lead". Or when to take the brave and self-protecting decision to back off or park a lead or pursuit of an opportunity.

Either cut it completely or park it for a much later reactivation sometime in the distant future when you think the time is ripe. DX

I am saying in this environment and field, push it until someone says no. This can be done nicely but assertively. If the hiring manager can't say no to a candidate who they don't want to talk with or consider, it is their own problem, not the candidate. If they get mad, so what, they will get over it. Sometimes a candidate needs to know where they stand because there are some managers who will never give you a chance .....based on absolutely nothing ....at least anything objective. Just say no I am not interested, if that is the case. This allows the candidate to move on and the candidate will not call again. What I am saying here is if the manager is playing games and doesn't want to consider a candidate? Just say no and allow the candidate to move on. How many jobs have you (or I) lost out on because we didn't push it enough? You don't know. My job when following a lead is to get heard and make sure that person allows me to make my case (especially in light of stats above about networking and hidden jobs). This is true of any good salesperson. If a manager faults a candidate for hustling and being assertive (or they are closed minded not to speak with someone for a few minutes), then the problem is with the manager. It is a sales job and you have to be assertive.

You said:

Also PG raises some good Points. Nate seems to expect that hiring Managers have all this time in the world to Focus on candidates, to chase and butter them up, and do the best to attract them. Maybe that was the behavior many years ago. For the most part, this is not the case today. Hiring Managers do have thier day Job to do and limited time or interest to thinking how to appease a Job seeker. DX

I doubt it. Today, I doubt managers work any more than they once did. The problems that I see is that managers use multiple forms of communications and they are overwhelmed by the information sent to them by email; a general lack of communication and phone etiquette skills; worried more about hiring based on minor issues of personality and not skills and expertise; reluctance to use the phone to communicate, and how can you evaluate behavioral attributes and fit based a cv or ten minutes at a conference (the answer is you can't). So, this is more reason to network assertively and not back don't so easily. There is no indication by the director that I am doing something wrong.

You said:

And remember, more often - when you think there is jealousy, thats intagible and most likely unsustantiated. The more tangible reality is that Person doesn't want to work with you due to personality conflict, not fear of your Talent/Expertise - remember, the Boss is the Boss, rare you'll ever outshine a Boss if anything - and if you to think you're so much better that the Boss, then your Job is make the Boss shine via your Talent, make them out shine others - you'll be rewarded more on that front that the other way. Consider you should view your Boss as your Partner not as Person antagonistic to your career - any other view well...i suggest starting your own Business - you're just Setting yourself for bad outcomes at the very start.

If you had met a prospective hiring manager for less than ten minutes (as I described), w/o reading a resume, what can a manager reasonably assess about your personality in order to eliminate you from a job candidacy? What personality conflict can they come up with?

I call a person like this judgmental. In this case, I sense there is some jealously or protector attitude possibly among the director but I don't know what and I don't care. Personally, it takes me time to get to know someone and trust them, certainly more than a few minutes.

Frankly, I should just call her up and say the following:

"Hello Jane, My name is Nate and I am a local patent analyst and molecular pharmacologist with significant experience and expertise in the life sciences. We met at the conference and I enjoyed your talk. How are you doing? <Great, likewise I enjoyed the meeting and didn't have much time to speak>. I believe that I can help your group with licensing and patent analysis. Can I have couple minutes of your time? I would like to met with you over a cup of coffee to explain my background and its relevance as well as find out about your goals for the group. Is this is ok with you? What's a convenient time? Thanks"

I would jazz it up a bit. If the response is negative or she interrupts before I am finished, I will come back with a direct:

"What would it take for you to consider me for X position?"

Or a softer:

"Well we will never know if it is fit if we aren't open about it and if it isn't quite the match maybe can help each other with an exchange of information or an occasional referral?"

FYI-We should have a discussion on this forum about dealing with objections when networking? Any tooling up articles from the past?


If the response is still not receptive, I will give up because the issue is with her. My hope is that she will take the time to meet with me. Networking is a two way street that involves reciprocation. Some people understand this and others don't. Everyone is busy and can always make this excuse, DX, but it is more about a willingness to make quality hires and to reciprocate. The candidate has to figure what buttons to push in order to get the face to face interview.

DX, I have noticed that we have a difference of opinion. You believe that personality and behavioral traits are weighed more that skills and expertise in hiring decisions. In my experiences, I believe skills and expertise are given more consideration than soft intangible skills. The manager hires you to get a job done not necessarily to hire someone they like or who might be well like among the team. Further, senior managers are more likely to consider skills and expertise objectively and manage any behavioral issues as they occur. In other words, they expect you to be courteous and reasonable with others but foremost they expect a high level of expertise and productivity. Whereas the inexperienced manager hires more based on personality preferences and not necessarily based on talent. This opinion comes from many years of experiences both in academia and the private sector (as well as a several high level business executives I have know through family members). If I am wrong about this, why I should I try to emphasize my accomplishments, education, expertise, and skills. This is why I believe that one should start networking at the higher levels of the organization and get referrals.

I am curious about your background and area of expertise within the pharmaceutical industry is? Some times you sound like a HR director or an industrial psychologist than a scientist. I enjoy the exchange and the contrast of opinions.

Still I am coming to believe that you have to push hard when networking due to a lot factors beyond the candidate's control and occasionally you will encounter a manager playing games where a candidate will have to push it to deal with the objections or their demeanor.