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no experience

Postby David » Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:11 pm

No experience

My friend finished a master degree from the United States, he has a doctoral degree from overseas, can not find any job in research, and most of the people say no publications. What about his thesis work?
However, I am surprised at some university like Penn, they hire many Chinese, the majority without publications. Some of them are not scientists at all; they just get the position because their husbands work in some lab. The positions on most of the universities websites are already taken, they just post it there to meet the Department of labor requirements that they advertised for a position for 2 months. If you received email for HR, they usually ask to submit your resume to recently opened position just to show that the position ?was? open.
Any suggestions?

Thanks
P.C. the job search websites of Princeton and Penn are the same!
David
 

no experience

Postby Kim » Thu Feb 24, 2005 9:51 pm

I am not sure if I can understand your post.

My friend finished a master degree from the United States, he has a doctoral degree from overseas, can not find any job in research, and most of the people say no publications. What about his thesis work?

First, in the US, a PhD without any publication will have a very difficult time to find any research job. It is pratically worthless in the US science research job market. If the thesis work is good, your friend should have publications. If your friend's foreign PhD work is not good, of course, your friend would get no publication out of the thesis work. So what is the problem, if a PhD without any publication cannot find any research job?

On the other hand, MS/BS level research positions, do not require publications.

However, I am surprised at some university like Penn, they hire many Chinese, the majority without publications. Some of them are not scientists at all; they just get the position because their husbands work in some lab.

What do you mean by "hire"? A person working in an academic lab does not necessarily mean that he/she is hired by the university. That person can be working there as an undergraduate, a PhD student, a postdoc, or even a volunteer.

Your post just highlights the importance of networking and publications!
Kim
 
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Joined: Tue Jan 10, 2012 11:28 pm

no experience

Postby John G. Hoey, Ph.D. » Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:29 pm

David:

I am in agreement with Kim. Your post really serves to illustrate the importance of publications and networking. The system used at many universities of posting job openings that are for the most part already filled, and do so only to meet labor requirements, is rather ridiculous. Again, it's your job to network to find out about open positions before they even become available or posted online. You should also be aware that jobs in academia are scarce and very difficult to obtain. Again, I am referring to jobs where the person is hired by the university...not necessarily the jobs where the salary is paid by the PI with grant $$.

John G. Hoey, Ph.D.
John G. Hoey, Ph.D.
 

no experience

Postby Emil Chuck » Fri Feb 25, 2005 12:44 pm

What we also have here a failure to mentor properly. I cannot imagine how any advisor could let one of his/her trainees go into the job market unpublished and unprepared.

I don't quite understand the other point painting a broad brush about job hires at other universities. I'll admit there probably is some two-body hires out there (and the politics there we can discuss later), but I doubt that's the real cause of your friend's problem. Besides, I doubt he'd want those jobs that seem to be internally filled. You got to search more than just those two sites.

The usual proper courtesy for HR ads that have to be "open" but technically aren't should be to indicate that "a strong internal candidate has been identified." I won't really take major sides on the two-body internal hire problem because I can understand how difficult it is to negotiate that if that is a condition of your employment compared to someone who does not have to worry about that.

But in my opinion, blame the mentor for not doing his/her job.
Emil Chuck
 
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no experience

Postby David » Fri Feb 25, 2005 5:57 pm

Emil
You are right, He described how one of his mentors gave him hard time. Some small universities in the United States hire bad recent PhD graduates. However, it is too late to blame.
David
 

If these cases are true, pressure those with H-1b control.

Postby Jim » Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:20 pm

i.e. your representatives.
Jim
 

no experience

Postby Shawn » Fri Feb 25, 2005 6:34 pm

I have a hard time believing that your friend could not find a position at Penn assuming he is looking for master's level employment and not doctoral Research scientist type position (btw I am at grad student at Penn). Looking at websites for job opportunities is the worst idea imaginable when looking for an academic position. None of the many technicians I know got their jobs by applying through HR here. Many didn't even have a classic network type of contact. They just emailed their resume to as many PI's as possible (at Penn that's a ton of people). I really don't see a big shortage of tech positions here even in the absence of publications many faculty just want a competent technician who will be around for a few years.

My advice would be to stop using HR and go straight to the source.
Shawn
 

No Networking Means Not Working?

Postby Nakajima, Dr. Eng. » Tue Mar 01, 2005 5:29 am

I wonder how an oversea PhD course student can do any networking in his or her own country. I did my doctorate in a foreign country (in Asia), but I couldn't find a job there so I returned to my country (in Europe). But I haven't found a research job so far, even though I do have publications. When I apply for a research job at Master's level (which is in most cases for PhD candidates), I am "overqualified". When I apply for an industry job related to my research area, I get my application rejected because I lack industrial experience. Is there any hope for PhD holders who are not buddies with professors in their country of residence?
Nakajima, Dr. Eng.
 

No Networking Means Not Working?

Postby Dave Jensen » Tue Mar 01, 2005 8:47 am

Dr. Nakajama,

These problems occur no matter where you live or apply. If a scientist is in Iowa, and applying to companies in San Francisco, my guess is that they encounter the same difficulties. It must be very difficult to network with employers in another continent. However, the person in Iowa has a much more successful result if they actually go to California and apply from there. Employers like a "local" labor pool . . . Perhaps when you go to the country you are interested in, things will change for you.

However, I'd say that there are likely to still be some issues. You are applying to MS level jobs? Why? Of course, no company wants a PhD in those jobs. That person would be unhappy and "looking" again within weeks. A really bad hiring decision! So, don't even bother. However, if you can change your CV and start to look a bit less "academic" you may find more companies opening the door to at least talk to you with the initial phone meeting. Read articles on NextWave or on sites like the UCSF Career Center for more material here.

Dave Jensen, Moderator
"Failure is a bruise -- not a tattoo." -- Jon Sinclair
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Dave Jensen
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what is "masters level" job?

Postby David » Tue Mar 01, 2005 1:53 pm

Dave Jensen,

May I ask what do you mean by masterlevel jobs and what the hiring people in industry are looking for to fill these jobs?
Thank you
David
 

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