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How to Manage an Internal Move inside a Company

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Re: How to Manage an Internal Move inside a Company

Postby PG » Wed Mar 28, 2018 4:41 am

In my experience the number of really bad bosses in industry are rather few (with a lower frequency than in academia). I also Think that blocking someone from advancing due to jealasy or only self interest is rather rare although it can of course happen.

More frequently someone might block or not recommend someone for other reasons including some that might be correct ie the candidate is not ready now, not strong enough or have some other issues.

More frequent there can be a lack of Active support that can sometimes be interpreted as something else. I have sen the following in different companies

Not prioritizing spending time and energy on any activitity that doesnt help the activities in the current team. This woudl include not supporting a lateral move.

A boss thinking that he is running the best unit in the Company so obviously the best opportunity for development is with his group and therefore a lateral move would be bad for the personal development of a talented individual.

On a similar note a boss thinking that for example research is the most advanced activity within the Company and having talented researchers moving to something else (which may include development) is a waste of Resources.

One of my previous bosses was just not interested in this type of questions. Despite asking I did not have a single development discussion with this boss but it didnt have anything to do with that he didnt want me to move on and when I did he actually congratulated me to the new position and has provided good references at later time Points.

Having given these examples I again want to Point out that these people have been the exceptions and most managers that I have seen are more or less supportive of their staff advacning their careers also outside their group. As for Everything else managers are more or less skilled in how to practially do this but that is another question.

Having the support from your manager in driving your development will make everything a lot easier and I would highly recommend both having development discussions with your manager and that you do an effort in getting your current manager on your side in the discussions.
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Re: How to Manage an Internal Move inside a Company

Postby D.X. » Wed Mar 28, 2018 6:47 am

PG wrote:In my experience the number of really bad bosses in industry are rather few (with a lower frequency than in academia). I also Think that blocking someone from advancing due to jealasy or only self interest is rather rare although it can of course happen.

More frequently someone might block or not recommend someone for other reasons including some that might be correct ie the candidate is not ready now, not strong enough or have some other issues.

More frequent there can be a lack of Active support that can sometimes be interpreted as something else. I have sen the following in different companies

Not prioritizing spending time and energy on any activitity that doesnt help the activities in the current team. This woudl include not supporting a lateral move.

A boss thinking that he is running the best unit in the Company so obviously the best opportunity for development is with his group and therefore a lateral move would be bad for the personal development of a talented individual.

On a similar note a boss thinking that for example research is the most advanced activity within the Company and having talented researchers moving to something else (which may include development) is a waste of Resources.

One of my previous bosses was just not interested in this type of questions. Despite asking I did not have a single development discussion with this boss but it didnt have anything to do with that he didnt want me to move on and when I did he actually congratulated me to the new position and has provided good references at later time Points.

Having given these examples I again want to Point out that these people have been the exceptions and most managers that I have seen are more or less supportive of their staff advacning their careers also outside their group. As for Everything else managers are more or less skilled in how to practially do this but that is another question.

Having the support from your manager in driving your development will make everything a lot easier and I would highly recommend both having development discussions with your manager and that you do an effort in getting your current manager on your side in the discussions.


Fantastic Comment PG and direct to my point - most bosses more are less are supportive and one of the hallmarks of a high performing team is where the boss is spending time to develope others.

As you note with your experience the situation is not always ideal but as you obviously saw and you acted in the spirit that it’s your career so own it.

There are many reasons a boss many not support an immediate move as you and I highlighted different views on readiness in light of job needs is one and often the case.

I wanted to highlight that organizational readiness to support a move is also a function on the organizational state of affairs. To Nate’s question, I had a fantastic internal network that I was able to mobilize however due to a reorganization where there were changes in structure and management to include my internal networks who either got MORE CLOUT or less, there was no way I was going to see any movement - at least what I wanted directly anytime soon, they had to figure their own place in the new organizational landscape first then maybe much later on think about me and I’m taking those at much hire levels - even they have to work within the organization even if they are the creators.

So with all that internal networking - yes I was relatively happy - I would have probably got what I wanted at some point - my new supervisor at some point would have more of a readiness and clout to move me ..at some point...but alas like you PGA new opportunity (for me externally) but I leave with congrats and I believe a favorable view in the organization. I had already directly benefited in the last reorg so no complaints only gratitude.

But nice commentry.

DX
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Re: How to Manage an Internal Move inside a Company

Postby Nate W. » Thu Mar 29, 2018 10:00 am

My answer to this question of whether you should inform you supervisor about a lateral move is that it depends on whether you completely trust your boss to act in your best interest (not his). When people are competing for positions and supervisors are dependent on your efforts to get ahead within an organization, they might not act in an altruistic manner. Also, they might consider what is best for the company's need as a whole not yours. However, if you don't have the trust of your supervisor and your supervisor doesn't have best demeanor, he might make your current employment with him more difficult; you just don't know with some personalities. What I am saying is that it depends on the person who is supervising you and his values; further, that it is a nature tendency in these situations for some managers to act only in their best interests by holding you back intentionally. You also didn't consider that some managers might NOT have the authority to grant your transfer to another position or be able to help nor want to because in their mind your efforts are best served here with me; so any conversation about a career move might be met with a non-responsive answer. In the idealistic scenario that you described, DX, at your company, what incentive does a manager have to help the careers of his employees?

I have read somewhere in career help articles the following two observations:

1) You are more likely to get a promotion from outside the organization than from where you currently work at.

2) New opportunities arise mostly through networking.

What I am saying here is that some employers don't promote from within and never will admit it; or a manager will never admit it. Plus, you have no strings and potential baggage when a new company evaluates you. This means no situation where two managers are bickering over whether this employee's efforts are best served with me. So, you have more leverage externally.

DX, ask yourself why companies try to enforce non-compete agreements? If managers truly wanted to help their good employees, we wouldn't have these agreements just the NDA. It is because managers are sometimes paranoid about employees being poached (even within the company) from a rival company. This might factor unfairly into the way a supervisor might not want to let you go or try intentionally to keep you from leaving. This is especially true if you have worked on a technology that is a trade secret and has not been released to the consumer.

Sometimes there are just bad personalities out there and the managers with these behavioral tendencies will never change and never give anything back to the employees who has helped him. These behavioral tendencies include self-centeredness, narcissism, lacking empathy for others, and controlling others to satisfied their personal insecurities. Any person displaying these tendencies is a waste of time and will only wreck team efforts. Further, you don't want to place your career in the hands of managers who display these traits. Run away because it is all about themselves and they will NEVER reciprocate to ANYONE. Companies should screen in their behavioral surveys for these traits because they are at heart of most disputes and employee relations problems; screen all the self-centered jerks and narcissists out: they never will help any team effort! DX, I have lived this nightmare and Miranda was a pussy cat compared to the guy I dealt with; classical narcissistic personality disorder.

DX, read the book, the conflict between Andy and Miranda was much worst than the movie portrayed. Does Miranda really have Nigel's back? Go towards the end of the movie when Runway was being potentially bought out and Miranda had to consider who would run Runway. Did she hand off the reins to Nigel or give him a promotion? No she didn't she gave it to her rival in a strategic move (I forgot the character's name here; French name). The point is that she acted in her best interests, selfishly. Remember when both Nigel and Andy sighed about this slight. The character Miranda, a narcissist in my book, would never give anything back to her employees. DX, in the book, Miranda hated people who initiated conversations with her and that's why employees hated being on the elevator alone with her. From what I have read, this is a fairly accurate characterization of the real live editor of Vogue. Working for a manager like this is a waste of time and job seekers should be trained to spot the dysfunctional behaviors so they can leave these situations for the best.

Nobody should have to depend on a paycheck in which you are required to butter up the personal insecurities of a self centered egotist manager; employees should be evaluated on their job related performance only and not their abilities to be an armchair psychotherapist to an insecure asshole of a manager. DX, I will leave this work to you (and the professionals shrinks) and I know a perfect potential patient who needs a consult; got some Rorschach inkblots!
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Re: How to Manage an Internal Move inside a Company

Postby Dave Jensen » Thu Mar 29, 2018 12:59 pm

Nate, your posts are always full of people doing back-stabbing and nightmare colleagues and bosses. I've had mostly good bosses in my life, and colleagues that I trusted. And who I think trusted me. Yes, there were situations where we competed for the same job and someone got it and someone didn't, but I don't recall ever having my career as negatively affected by issues like these as you portray.

I think that others will agree with me, that more often than not, these situations end up working out if you play your cards ethically and trust your gut feeling about people. You'll know who the "bad apples" are in a company after a short time working there, and you can avoid situations with them. Having a bad boss is tough (and yes they are out there) but I think there are more of them in academia than in companies.

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Re: How to Manage an Internal Move inside a Company

Postby D.X. » Thu Mar 29, 2018 5:38 pm

Hi Nate,

Agree with Dave, you are very negative. That being said have you been inside a company? You would know that each employee has a development plan and on the formal books have the opportunity to talk about thier development at least twice a year thorough thier mid and full year performance reviews via an official HR system and process.

In this process employees first rate thier perfromance then the boss gives thier view and you the emplyee have an opportunity to comment back both written and discussion. Seems like you are not aware of this.

Second in the organizations i have been in a key leadership competency is the ability to develop others and this is expected by the company. In one company i worked for they took it a step further and officially held every employee to thier leadership competency model which included, in verbatim "develop best teams" - and sure enough if you were a supervisor or individual contributor you had to account for hoe you were living that competency in your year end review!

Managers are motivated to develope you because they have more to gain in the long run from doing that! Not only that if yiu have an employee that is a performer, it is an organizational loss to lose that employee.

All of us who have posted have noted the world is not ideal...what i posted IS THE PROCESS hands down. In a company, no internal network is going to rip an FTE from a supervisor! there are reorgs where then in a process there can be FTE shift for various reasons, as mentioned with reorgs there can be opportunity and internal networking really helps here not to trump your boss to identify opportunity - but to do as you suggest well...tells me you are not experienced in being in an organization.

We have all said there are times when bosses are not supportive but all agree for the most part they are - we have also said that sometimes non support can arise from many sourses from differentiated views of readiness, fit to a new role ext. yes companies sometimes want to hire externally at certain points in thier management lifecycle, they may want a fresh view, yes one can find jobs externally, we have said but this threa was about moving internally. External moves are always an option more related to employee readiness.

And thats another point maybe for another thread, maybe the employee is really NOT ready! They may still have gaps or challenges where both the boss and management feel they are not ready and they are not! So thats there too.

Lets see how wrong can i be? See i,ve made it to pharma, gone from national level to Global, have been given awards for performance, have been promoted, have shifted between scietific and commercial functions, have been in big biotech.pharma and small speciality pharma, have led cross-fuctional teams and have always had people who wanted to work with me and have me on thier teams, have been a member of ny functions leadership team. And even more important than all that, ive made mistakes especially on this process which i did mention in a prior post....i think im not off the buck here. At least im sharing my learns and experience for the positive.

I do think you should get into a company and youll learn a few things and quit being negative seriously, trust me negative folks get culled pretty fast and they certainly dont advance.

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