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Using a job offer to get a promotion or better salary

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Re: Using a job offer to get a promotion or better salary

Postby I.K.K. » Thu Oct 29, 2015 3:41 pm

Dustin Levy wrote:Iain,

I've been in the situation you describe and can offer my experiences.

First, an analogy. Let's suppose a married man or woman is at social event and is kissed romantically by someone other than their spouse. He or she might tell their spouse that someone kissed them but that "I didn't kiss them back". The spouse will likely be angry that their partner even put himself or herself in a situation where something like this could occur.

I once went through an interview process with another employer, received an offer for more money, but ultimately declined it. I thought about telling my boss, but decided not to. I don't think this would have built trust, rather, the response from my boss would have been "how could you even go through this process with another company", likely followed by some of the outcomes that Dick described.

One reason I considered telling my boss was to make him aware that my talents were of value to another company. This would be like telling your spouse that someone kissed you in order to remind your spouse that you're a good catch and can leave them at any time...not a good marital strategy.

Of course, my analogy breaks down when you consider that your spouse might find out second hand. In this case, you might be better off disclosing, taking your lumps, appreciating that you were wrong for putting yourself in the situation, and begging for forgiveness. We'll table the marital discussion now.

The stakes aren't as high with your boss. If they were to find out second hand, they might know an offer was made, but it's unlikely that they would know the terms of it. You could downplay the situation by saying "they led me to believe early in the interview process that I might get an offer that I wouldn't be able to refuse, but it ended up being much lower than what I would ever consider leaving here for." You can close the discussion by saying "now I really appreciate how good I have it here" and any issue is likely closed. That said, my boss never found out, so I never had the need to try out this tactic.

Dustin


Thanks Dustin, this has given me a few things to think about.
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Re: Using a job offer to get a promotion or better salary

Postby PG » Mon Nov 02, 2015 12:58 pm

I think that there is also another side to this. If you have gone through an interview process with another company to the point at which they give you an offer that other company have spent time and resources on this process and this might mean that they have missed other candidates that have moved on to other offers. If you then turn down this offer in a late phase for reasons that they did not see as a potential problem it may complicate your chances with that company (and with the people directly involved) in the future. Biotech is a small world and the probability is high that you will run into the same company and/or people again.

I have been in the situation that I resigned from a position ot go to another company and the company I was currently working for started making counter offers without me asking for them. My decision was to turn those counter offers down and move forward with the new position. Looking back this was the correct decision to make.
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Re: Using a job offer to get a promotion or better salary

Postby Steven Z. » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:10 am

I believe workers accepting counteroffers also encourages and enables bad behavior by employers. If the only time they are willing to pay the worker what they are worth is when they have another offer and are walking out the door well too bad. A day late and quite a few dollars short.

Same thing with the perma-temp abuse at the BS/MS level. If workers would simply quit with no notice (frankly if a company won't even make enough of a commitment to you to make you perm and offer benefits they really don't deserve 2 weeks) perhaps it would stop or at least force companies to reconsider especially when they lose all the training they provided and the specific expertise (how to use a particular instrument on a specific analysis and troubleshoot etc).

The only way nowadays to get a substantial raise beyond the 0-3% COLA is really to jump companies. Getting a substantial raise usually has to go up through the entire chain of command and that is an uphill battle. So they end up losing talent, having to give that raise to the new person to attract talent, and then have to wait for the new worker to get up to speed and reach peak productivity.
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Re: Using a job offer to get a promotion or better salary

Postby D.X. » Tue Nov 03, 2015 9:56 am

Steven Z. wrote:I believe workers accepting counteroffers also encourages and enables bad behavior by employers. If the only time they are willing to pay the worker what they are worth is when they have another offer and are walking out the door well too bad. A day late and quite a few dollars short.

Same thing with the perma-temp abuse at the BS/MS level. If workers would simply quit with no notice (frankly if a company won't even make enough of a commitment to you to make you perm and offer benefits they really don't deserve 2 weeks) perhaps it would stop or at least force companies to reconsider especially when they lose all the training they provided and the specific expertise (how to use a particular instrument on a specific analysis and troubleshoot etc).


Hi Steven,

First, employees accepting offers of other companies are a natural part of career pathing. Sometimes, as I alluded to in my previous post - an opportunity presents itself to move faster or gain more responsiblity than would be achievable with a current employer. In my case, a strategic mix of different organizations are a part of my personal development from big biotech to big pharma to medium pharma, late life cycle managment to small speciality pharma from national to international - all putting me towards narrowed but moving target career goals aligned to personal desires and changing life situations and life priorites. So - in summary, i've given my notice quite often - only one did I accept a Counter offer with accepted risks and benefits.

Secondly, companys are completely Aware of this, at least from an HR perspective, and incorpoate such "turnover" into thier planning and KPIs. Obviously they can't Keep all employees but they try to Keep thier place of work attractive within certain thresholds.

A certain Level of turnover is actaully good for an organization - it is an opportunity to get new blood into an organization with a different set of experiences and skills.

Also consider an employees decision to leave a Company is not necessarily directed at the Company - there is a saying the an employee leaves the Boss or Team, not the Company. So there is a personal element. This is why there is alot of Focus on Team-Spirit/Engagement etc. Unfortunately within a Team or function an employee can easily undervalued or taken for granted - leading to often false perceptions that an employee is happy or more often, you can find Managers not willing or capable to meet employee Needs/desires within the career Framework - for a diversity of reasons that go beyond this post. It is what it is.

The other point to consider - in most cases and in the real world - employees who look for another offer or entertain external opportunities have already taken thier decision. And any amount of counter-offer or re-negotiation of package will not Change the employees mind. In most cases, out here in the real world, those who have pursued and secured an offer have a more dominant readiness to leave and take a new Challenge - with a clean start. Its more the rarer case an employee will seek an offer to improve thier chances with a current employee. See my point on leaving with grace in a prior post in this thread. Most times, they close the discussion pretty fast when the Boss asks "what can I do to Keep you?" .

As Dave suggesting, think first about approaching with a Counter offer, even if you do get one and you accept it, you will be put into a bucket and your actions will be remembered by our Boss, for good or for bad.


Good luck,

Dx
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Re: Using a job offer to get a promotion or better salary

Postby Dave Walker » Tue Nov 03, 2015 4:25 pm

Thanks to Dick for another interesting question. And to Dustin for the great marital analogy!

In my experience (likely far less than others here), this is a dangerous activity and when done incorrectly can sour relations with one's current employer and possibly several others. When done right, of course, there's a promotion or a raise!

As DX says rightly any experienced manager or HR department will be aware than their employees might get a better offer. I have found it useful to put myself in the manager's shoes: if it were my employee, what would I realistically do? Probably try to sense if they had already "checked out" of their current job; find out how serious they felt about leaving. I would probably be on the defensive from the start, as there is not much of a discussion if the employee comes with an offer: it's more of an ultimatum. I'm at a disadvantage, and I know it. However, if this was an irreplacable employee I might looks past this...to a point.

This why it gets so fraught, I think -- putting one's superiors on the defensive just sounds like a bad idea. My advice to the employee is to really consider the advantages of working at a new place: exposure to leadership styles, more networking opportunities, etc. I think this is often undervalued compared to salary and benefits. And if they choose to try this approach anyway, to be as disarming as possible.

An anecdote: a colleague of mine went through this dance. He brought a job offer to his current manager, who bristled immediately and nearly let him go on the spot. However, my colleague knew his worth and appealed to the higher ups at his company. They demanded that he be kept; he landed a new position and a large salary increase at a different part of the company. It put lots of people on edge.

While it seemed to work out, I still think he should have taken the other offer to experience life outside of his company.
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Re: Using a job offer to get a promotion or better salary

Postby D.X. » Wed Nov 04, 2015 4:35 am

Dave Walker wrote:
While it seemed to work out, I still think he should have taken the other offer to experience life outside of his company.


Hanging on this Point, more an more it is competitively advantageous to incorporate experiences from different comapanies as one moves on in career. Your added value can be bringing in the best practices and Expertise gained from other employers. I'm not advocating jumping from Company year after year, that does damage too - certainly commitment and development with current employer should be prioritized.

However, the time will come when you as employee will want a Change - and external opportunities should be a part of the mix when assessing the next step as an add-on to internal development opportunities.

Balance that with managing tenure as noted with not switching Company every year.

DX
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