Dick Woodward wrote:Nate:
As someone who has hired a number of people, I would not view a lack of a reference from one's immediate previous industrial supervisor to be a problem - after all, it is uncommon to announce that you are looking for a position. I would be a bit concerned if there were not references from supervisors or colleagues from a previous position.
On the other hand, if someone coming to me from academia did not have references from either a PI or, in the case of a graduating PhD, from thesis committee members, this would cause me a great deal of concern. I would specifically be concerned that this person could not "play well with other children", and would probably look at alternative candidates.
As far as DX' comment that company personnel do not go out of their way to sabotage other's careers, that is absolutely true. There is, however, the power of the hiring manager's network - for example (true story), I was interviewing X for a sales position. I also had an trusted acquaintance who had worked with X at another company. I asked about X and how X fit in. The reply - "X is good enough, although not great. However, at trade shows, X is generally found at the hotel pool - especially when there is set-up or tear-down to be done." Guess what - X did not get the job due to questions about work ethic.
As is often stated on this forum, there are many, many applicants for every position. Anything that raises a question about an employee's fitness for the position may be enough to derail an application.
You also suggest the possibility of legal action in certain cases. I am aware of a situation where an applicant actually informed the hiring manager that the applicant had sued a previous supervisor for harassment. According to the manager, based on what the candidate divulged, the supervisor deserved it. However, the hiring manager told me that when she polled all of the other interviewers, words like "brittle", "overly sensitive", "potential for problems" and the like were used. Someone else got the position. If you are in the unfortunate position of taking legal action against a supervisor, the word will get out and it will negatively impact your career.
Dick
Thanks Dick for the advice. Have you heard or been in situation where your boss was asked to leave because his superior disliked him and then wanted to get rid of anyone associated with him. So then your boss's supervisor took it one step further out of anger at your boss to blacklist any of your former boss's employees from reapplying to the University. This was accomplished through a mechanism whereby when you list your former employer and department on an application; HR calls the former department and coordinates a check between the old department and new prospective department done by an administrative HR representative that works in the departments. Apparently, your boss's supervisor puts the word out through his HR department administrator not to hire anybody associated with your boss; even after 4 years. You asked the boss's supervisor about this in a polite way who says you are guilty by association but you didn't do anything else wrong. You push him by saying this has nothing to with me; I can't control my boss's behavior and how well the two of you get along. Of note, your boss is a difficult person to get along with and you can understand where the boss's supervisor is coming from and why he asked him to leave. However, you accomplished a lot for him and he is a PI listed on your publications. Because of this silly disagreement, your former PI of many years will not provide an accurate or honest reference for any of the five people who stayed behind. Or not provide one at all. Some former employees have gotten the former supervisor to say nothing and the University likewise will now say nothing; but the boss's supervisor still has his block in place (since he and his HR supervisor are still there).
There is more to the backstory of why the two professors don't get along but nobody will talk openly after 4 years. It is all rumors and gossip. Even former residents seem fearful to talk about it. When the former employees left behind ask senior administrators about it, they dodge the questions and seem annoyed that you asked. Nobody among the administrators has said you or the five left behind did anything wrong; but some say they agree with supervisor's BS about "guilt by association."
However, you are trying to compete elsewhere in the University but you have this supervisor block and no letter from your former PI and thesis advisor. You have obtained two positions since then and you have the support of all your former coworkers/and other thesis advisors. Further, you have your former supervisor's evaluations which are positive. You have 3 publications to show. How can you explain this situation without disparaging your former boss or his supervisor while sounding professional?
What would you do in this situation? Does the supervisor (or former boss) have a right to interfere in my career over something as silly as this? How do you get people involved to talk about this?
{these two guys are really unreasonable and some senior administrators at this University are "feel" like they are beyond reproach}