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Millenials in the Workplace

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Re: Millenials in the Workplace

Postby D.X. » Thu Aug 02, 2018 2:10 am



Hi Andrew,

Sure, but I think it also depends on sector and sub-sector, and to a limited extent geography. This behavior does not happen per se on the commericial side of pharma where i sit. Jobs are few compared to job-seeking market, its an employer's market not employees. Plus the market profile for job seekers are highly specialized and skilled. I would say same for Pre-clinical and manufacturing side of R&D - Ph.D.s who have direct experience in-house pharma Drug Discovery or direct experience Technical Production or Industry Operations - super highly skilled folk and not so many jobs.

So for a young newbie PhD to even get a shot to interview for say a Technical Production or Quality role at Big Pharma Inc. - I highly doubt they won't be showing up...if anything i bet they'll be there 1 hour early!

There are other sectors that are churn of the mill, that don't required super specialized or super skilled employees as compared to say what's needed for being a Non-clinical Pharmacologist or Toxicologist responsible for data generation and collation into an IND submission vs. call center person. No to deminish call center folk but you get the point.

Millenial or not, they'll be at the interview on my side of the sector, even for short-term trainee positions.

DX
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Re: Millenials in the Workplace

Postby Dave Jensen » Thu Aug 02, 2018 11:18 am

What Andrew mentions is a real problem. While I haven't seen it in the same degree that the article talks about, I've seen it in short stays in companies. For some reason, it's OK to just move on in three or four months if you don't like the atmosphere or culture, instead of digging in and trying to make the best of it. Short stays STILL don't look good on CV's, but people are more willing to take the risk.

It's sad -- companies aren't willing to invest in on the job training any longer, which they used to do because people spent many years in their employ, and employees aren't willing to go through a "process" of getting acclimated to the new environment of a company. If they don't sense a promotion coming immediately, or if there is a hiccup with a new boss, they're willing to just jump ship.

Recruiters are rethinking their guarantee policies now as a result of this tendency -- With the trend to just jump ship, the old six month or one year guarantees (with a full replacement search at no charge) look risky.

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Re: Millenials in the Workplace

Postby D.X. » Fri Aug 03, 2018 3:12 am

Dave Jensen wrote:
Recruiters are rethinking their guarantee policies now as a result of this tendency -- With the trend to just jump ship, the old six month or one year guarantees (with a full replacement search at no charge) look risky.

Dave


REALLY??? 6 month or 1 year guarantee?! Oh my. By me its probabation completion, 3 months in general. Maybe you can try that as your milestone for guarantee?

That way you have documentation that Hiring Manager is happy, HR is happy..etc. For example, we have to fill a probation completion form with the boss that is then submitted to HR documenting that the employee has completed probation period and is officially a fixed FTE.and official contractual notification period then kicks in.

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Re: Millenials in the Workplace

Postby Dave Jensen » Fri Aug 03, 2018 4:43 pm

D.X. wrote:
Dave Jensen wrote:
Recruiters are rethinking their guarantee policies now as a result of this tendency -- With the trend to just jump ship, the old six month or one year guarantees (with a full replacement search at no charge) look risky.

Dave


REALLY??? 6 month or 1 year guarantee?! Oh my. By me its probabation completion, 3 months in general. Maybe you can try that as your milestone for guarantee?

That way you have documentation that Hiring Manager is happy, HR is happy..etc. For example, we have to fill a probation completion form with the boss that is then submitted to HR documenting that the employee has completed probation period and is officially a fixed FTE.and official contractual notification period then kicks in.

DX


We've had a one-year guarantee for 30 years and had to invoke it perhaps twice. But in today's market, it no longer makes sense. 90 days might be what a contingent recruiter would use.

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Re: Millenials in the Workplace

Postby E.K.L. » Fri Aug 03, 2018 5:22 pm

Dave Jensen wrote:It's sad -- companies aren't willing to invest in on the job training any longer, which they used to do because people spent many years in their employ, and employees aren't willing to go through a "process" of getting acclimated to the new environment of a company. If they don't sense a promotion coming immediately, or if there is a hiccup with a new boss, they're willing to just jump ship.


Dave

I'd say training is an important factor, but it's not only the quality & amount of training, but also the way you train your employee. E.g. the first company I've worked at I was assigned a 'mentor' during training (a bit like the old apprenticeship system). Looking back, it was a very effective way of making you feel like yuou are part not only of the company, but also the people who work there.

My later jobs used the approach D.X. described in another thread; someone is supposed to show you the ropes, but three days after you start they are on sick leave, a month later they have quit, and you have to 'make do' with what you know. Sure, you learn a lot that way, but it doesn't build any particular attachment to your workplace.
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Re: Millenials in the Workplace

Postby Michael James » Thu Aug 23, 2018 1:58 pm

We just had a 50+ year old faculty recruit leave within a week, and I can name many more that we have lost in the last 5 years. In contrast, all of the under 40 year old faculty have been deeply committed to the institution. The older generation is just as flaky as the younger generation. I see plenty of mobility when reviewing applications. I don't think any of the comments made in this thread are backed up by data.
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Re: Millenials in the Workplace

Postby Mira D » Mon Aug 27, 2018 6:57 pm

Instead of feebly finding ways to blame an entire generation for their failings to adhere to norms that many consider oppressive and regressive, perhaps you should turn the mirror around and consider if there's an issue with the policies and procedures these Millenials have to contend with in your workplace. While I would be wary of making my own set of sweeping generalizations about an entire generation, I have found that Baby Boomers, despite their big sacks of confidence (perhaps instilled by living their entire adult lives during peak-capitalism boom times), are inept when it comes to electronic communication (what we Millenials like to call "email"). Perhaps your email correspondence wasn't as crystal clear as you may have thought it was, leading to the new hire not showing up on day 1 of their new job? Maybe men in the office made inappropriate comments to the female employee and that was the underlying reason she felt the need to take time off when it wasn't yet "deserved"?
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Re: Millenials in the Workplace

Postby Andrew » Wed Sep 12, 2018 9:55 pm

Had another person that we waited for a month to get her EAD card and she was to start next Monday. She sent an email that she continued interviewing and found another job and she won't be showing up.

It is definitely a generational thing and has to do with extreme immaturity and a sense of entitlement that we have never seen in previous generations. It is tempting to behave like them and just continue to interview candidates and make offers until someone starts and then rescind the others, but I will insist on standards of behavior for my company regardless of what I see in the marketplace.

Mira, your comments are ridiculous. There are no "unclear communications" or "comments from men" that required she take a week off without permission and there are no old people here that do not know how to use email. The kid we fired had a female boss and she had only worked there two months. I was willing to make it a warning, but her boss wanted her fired.
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Re: Millenials in the Workplace

Postby Andrew » Thu Sep 13, 2018 9:13 am

A few other points in this thread

- I cannot imagine any recruiter giving a year guarantee these days. We had a 6 month guarantee from the last person we hired via a recruiter and they left after 7 months. $25K cost and we did not do any better than the direct hires.

- Some commented on evolving norms. I'm sorry, but I don't see it. A norm of rudeness toward people and displaying a lack of integrity is what I have described. Is that the norm that you are defending? How old school do you have to be to have an expectation that people will do what they have agreed to do?

- On social media. We are finding that all these young people are connected to one another on Facebook and Wechat. Twenty years ago you could take an employment action and walk the person out the door and control the narrative throughout the company. This is no longer the case. They leave the company and continue to communicate with all the employees. It requires rigorous honesty with all other employees without breaching the affected employee's privacy. Because you are a bit hamstrung due to privacy concerns, it ends up with the ex-employee controlling the internal narrative rather than the company.
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Re: Millenials in the Workplace

Postby PG » Sun Sep 16, 2018 3:54 am

One thing is that I dont think that applicants that accepts a position and then doesnt show up for whateer reason understands the costs involved which are significant.

In this example I am going to assume that the person lets me know that he isnt coming the day before starting the new job. When this happens the entire hiring process may have to be restarted since we have said no thanks you to the other top candidates which usually means that they are no longer available.

Around here the typical recruitment process with a candidate that already has another position looks something like the following

Advertise the position.
Wait two weeks for applications to come in, this time includes readong and priortizing applications. Going through all applications, prioritizing etc will take at least 2 full time Days for Company staff.

Perform first round interviews with 2-3 people from the Company, 2 weeks calender time and probably Another two Days in working time.

perform second interciew round with 2-3 other peope often including a more sentior manager and potentially HR etc. Another two week calender time and maybe 1 full day total in working time.

Decide on candidate, send out offer etc. Various administrative work, organizing IT, entry cards etc. Probably Another 2 full Days of working time.

The typical time here for a new hire to start is around three months from when the offer is accepted.

Total time approx 4 months calender time and 7 full time work days including time from managers etc.

7 full time Days will cost us as a Little bit of Money but more importantly I currently typically have 4 people in an early stage Project meaning that losing 4 calender months for one of them is a one month delay to launch. Taking one of the last Projects we started as an example that month will probably cost us slightly above a million US dollars. In addition to that it will cost me as the responsible manager some discussions with top management about why we cant deliver on time and may also cause difficulties with external collaboration partners

Accepting a position and then dropping out last minute creates significant cost and troubles for the Company and it is likely that the hiring manager and potentially several others may remember the name of a candidate that did someting like this which may come back to the candidate in the future.
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